what size lionel transformer do i need

The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. Why Sign In? Been there, done that. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. (10 lights X . Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. Sign-up for email today! Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Wire gauges are coded by their size. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Mark. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. OTTS Founder These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. You must be signed in to continue. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. We're sorry. What do I need to do that with? While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. In some cases. what size lionel transformer do i need. Transformer sizing for new systems I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. Mike to the forum. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. Serious or fatal injuries may result. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! One rail is positive, the other negative. Are you running command or conventional? We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. [:)]. JavaScript is disabled. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". What size Lionel transformer do I need? The first Lionel electric trains were powered by wet-cell batteries, which were, of course, dangerous. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. Can't plug into outlet? Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. Model train power falls into one of three categories. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. Thanks! Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. It is 5" long. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. Both are lighted. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. $2799. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. Price Received. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. Different wiring projects call for different standards. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Best bang for the buck for command are the Lionel 180W Powerhouse bricks IMO. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. June 5, 2022; cleveland open chess 2021; mexican martial arts xilam I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. They run on three rail track. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". M3103. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. Our community is FREE to join. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? CW80 Transformer. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Price Received. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Price Received. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. If you add a lot of track and find that your train slows down as it gets farther from your transformer, you will need to run jumper wires to the opposite side of your track layout. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. :-). Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. White and black are common selections. And if the power supply does fail, it is best not to repair it on your own. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. Ill try to find a link to it for you. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. Faq No: 1029 DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. However, if you begin to add lighted cars, or more than a couple accessories, you may find that your train will not run as fast, or that it will shut off entirely. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. To participate you must either login or register for an account. To participate you must either login or register for an account. If the voltage drop in the track is more than a small fraction of the transformer voltage, that is, a volt or two, you are going to have trouble running the trains anyway. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. Our community is FREE to join. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before.

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